Interview with Elizabeth Collins
1. What led you to veganism? (something about your evolution and awakening to what is really going on with the animals)
I became vegan in 2007, having previously been a non vegan who didn’t eat some things, like the flesh of land animals and birds, but ate and used all other types of animal products. It was very superficial, and I was still completely ignorant of the truth about the inconsistency between my personal beliefs and my personal actions. I saw my very first ever slaughter video in the 1st half of the year 2007, about pigs. It was completely unplanned, I just turned on MNN one late night and it was on. Then I a couple of months later I accidentally caught a documentary that aired on another random channel, about the dolphin slaughter in Japan. I still hadn’t made the connection though, even after these two videos.
While watching them I had experienced true grief, outrage and overwhelming guilt, but had no one to guide me, no one to talk to about it. Neither video advocated veganism as an option, neither even mentioned veganism. None of my friends were vegan, none had seen nor would be willing to see these videos. So I was kind of lost and hurting with no real way of dealing with it at that point. It culminated in me actually coming to a realization that I would no longer eat seafood, and that I would no longer buy leather—but this was months after seeing these things. I guess it was lying dormant in the back of my unconscious. So when I realized I needed a new pair of boots for winter I finally clicked that I wanted to buy vegetarian leather, after having just bought about 3 pairs of leather sandals for the current summer. As I was moving back to NZ I looked at NZ vegetarian leather options and of course this lead to other animal websites, one of which featured a link to the movie Earthlings.
It took me ages to build up the courage to actually watch the film after I had bought it. I saw the trailers for the film and I was sobbing on the floor just from that, plus since seeing the pig and dolphin slaughter documentaries I knew what I was in for. During this interim period I went on the Earthlings forum, before even seeing the film, and there are some people on that forum really advocating veganism. Their solution to this horrible guilt and agony was to go vegan, and remove yourself from the exploitation. What a concept! I WISH I had been opened up to that sooner, but never mind. So I thought, well, I wonder if I can go vegan, but I still hadn’t made the full transition, and I also somehow knew I had to see the film. For some reason I knew it was something I had to watch, that I owed it to myself and all the animals whose suffering I had been contributing to my whole life, to see it. In this period between purchasing the film and watching the film I started buying “free range” eggs for myself, through being misguided by the majority of mainstream animal advocates that this was a good thing to do. I had given up diary products 3 years before because of my skin, otherwise I may very well have gone and bought “organic” milk.
Well one night I finally watched the film Earthlings. I cannot describe it. The only thing that helped me get through was to go on the Earthlings forum. Veganism is not advocated by the film either, it was like the other films I had seen, which showed you the footage but didn’t say “hey, guess what, you can go vegan!” I had no one in my life to talk with about it as I mentioned before. I was in a very dark place. Thank goodness for those people on the forum. After seeing the film I could no longer hide behind supposed ignorance. The forum members who advocate veganism helped me to see how easy and necessary it was to go vegan, and I immediately began educating myself about what that meant as a practical matter. I learned about silk and honey and that animal testing of make-up and household products STILL EXISTED (I really thought they didn’t do that anymore, I will be my bottom dollar most people don’t realize it still), and I just learned and learned and learned.
I also was guided to Gary Francione and the Abolitionist Approach and realized that not only did I myself want to be vegan, but I wanted to educate everyone I possibly could about veganism, to not deprive them from the truth as I had been deprived of it. So not only am I a vegan, I make it my life’s work to engage in creative non-violent vegan education, and that leads me to my podcast.
What led you to podcasting?
After going vegan I realized I wanted to do more to help others like myself, who have these thoughts in their mind, or who maybe have seen some footage or photos or read something, and were very guilty and confused and felt helpless, not realizing that there is actually a solution to all of this! We can stop doing it! We are so conditioned to our use of animals that it doesn’t even enter our heads most of the time. We need someone to point it out, and help us. I didn’t have that until almost a year later, and I wanted to be a person who was reaching out to people with this message.
I loved the Vegan Freaks podcast, but it was all for America and there was nothing for New Zealand. I thought, hey, I can do that down here! I was living in NZ and the lack of vegan education is astonishing and terribly worrying, so I decided to do a podcast from the NZ perspective. Ironically the majority of my listeners are still from overseas, but I am sure it will just take a little more time before we have enough people advocating veganism down here to start making a real difference. I only started in January so we are just getting going.
You don’t need a lot of money or fancy equipment to do a podcast, just a usb microphone, some free software like audacity, or if you have a macintosh you can use Garageband or even the basic Quicktime recorder, and of course an internet connection. The blogs and podcast hosting sites out there like Blogspot and Feedburner are so user friendly, they spell out every step and do all the complicated stuff for you. I know nothing about web stuff, it was all done by these programs, I just had to follow directions.
3. I have noticed a very steep improvement in your podcasts but have loved them all. When I first listened to you, I thought your voice was so easy to listen to and appreciated your honest struggles with this rather overwhelming topic. How have you learned to be such an eloquent interviewer and presenter while “live” so quickly?
Well, I don’t really know, thank you for the compliment! I am blushing. I just started doing the podcast because, well, I felt like I was going crazy! I had no one to talk to about my feelings and about doing vegan education, and so I thought well, I just have to do in on my own! I did the podcast in order to try to reach out to New Zealanders and also for therapy. As you mentioned, when you finally wake up to the reality of what is actually going on and you realize that we can actually stop it if we want to, yet we are not stopping it, it is so overwhelming! Unless you have a lot of close vegan friends it is hard to find people to talk to who can relate. I had just arrived back in NZ after many years away so I had no friends at all, let alone vegan friends. And then I found that the vegans I met locally did not want to engage in vegan education. As I say, most of my listeners are from overseas, and the vegan groups down here don’t want to advocate veganism as a moral baseline to animal rights, they are heavily involved in campaigns for promotion of cage free eggs and the like, so I sometimes still feel very isolated and alone. There is good news though—I am not alone! I have some other people who are interested in helping me promote veganism, so we help each other practically and support each other emotionally when it all gets too much. Things are better than they were with regard to my peace of mind – I think that shows in the podcast as well, and may have something to do with what you mentioned about the content of the show. I do get a lot of support from my lovely overseas friends, but I am still determined to bring this vegan education down here, I am still learning how to do it. It can only get better!
With regard to the podcast itself I owe a lot to the support I have received from people who are also engaging in vegan education, some of whom I have interviewed. They have guided me and helped me so much and I am very grateful to them. I think it takes many of us a while to fully grasp the enormity of what is happening and I wouldn’t have been able to express myself without learning from all the other people in the world who are engaging in activism, especially those who have been doing it for a long time. I think I am kind of a fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants kind of presenter, but that is just the way I am, so although it may not be as planned out and organized as other shows, it is genuine and I do my very best, and I think that if people can see that you are sincere and doing your very best, they forgive you the bumblings and mumblings along the way!
4. Do you have employment outside of vegan activism? How does veganism integrate with the rest of your life?
I am starting my life all over again from scratch basically, so I am in the process of trying to get a new career going as a translator and interpreter in Spanish and English. I have been supporting myself by temping, mostly office work, I am going to AUT University in Auckland for a Diploma in Interpreting and Translating, and I am currently anxiously awaiting the results of the NAATI (National Accreditation Authority for Translators and Interpreters) Interpreting Exam that I sat in June, which if I pass will certify me as a NAATI Interpreter and greatly help my chances for employment!
In the meantime it is a bit of a struggle financially, but the podcast and the other activism does not cost much at all, and my voice is free! I live my life as a vegan, which is very easy to do as we all know, and the food is cheap, so that is good. I do wish I had a car so I could carry things and go more places, but that will come in time, and if it doesn’t no matter. I can walk and get the bus. I have my flipbooks that I made from the slideshows from the Abolitionist Approach website and I have pamphlets from Peaceful Prairie, Abolitionist Approach, Vegan Abolitionist and others, and they are cheap to print out in black and white. I am still looking for a table I can carry on the bus actually, it is one of the things on my to do list for this week!
Any time I feel like complaining I just remember the non-humans and what they are going through and how lucky I am to be free, also I think of other humans in places of starvation and war and how wealthy I am compared to them, and I am determined to do what I can to help all of them, and therefore help myself. I would be much happier in a peaceful world, as we all would. We can make it happen, and that knowledge gives me strength and determination and helps me survive on no sleep!
5. I have a cat and wrote an article about vegan cats – do you have an opinion on that topic? It is a tough one I think. (What to feed them.)
I love the fact that incredible, creative, loving people have invented such wonderful vegan cat food. I see absolutely nothing wrong, nor do I understand why anyone would see anything wrong, with a healthy, happy cat that thrives on vegan cat food! It is fantastic! However, not all cats can. Some cats do not thrive and therefore must eat the non-vegan food. This is a good reason why domestication is not a good idea. This Sophie’s Choice-like dilemma should not exist and would not exist if we did not breed animals to have as our property. Most people are not vegan, so most people don’t even think about feeding their pets vegan food, so we have even more demand for animal products. I think that if more people were vegan, there would be a higher demand for vegan cat food, and maybe there would be the means for more creative people to make further advances in the kinds of vegan cat food out there, so that every cat could be vegan. But this is not the case. If anyone has a cat that is unable to thrive on vegan food, they obviously have an obligation to care for their little refugee, and therefore must participate in the horrific torture slaughter of non-humans. The only other choice is to torture and probably eventually cause the death of the cat, which is unacceptable. So this dilemma exists because of our domestication of non-humans and is very tragic. As it seems we will not see the end to the domestication of non-humans for a while, I am always hopeful more creative people will come up with more and more vegan cat food, so that all cats can thrive on a vegan diet. In the meantime it’s Sophie’s Choice. Of course one must choose the cat’s life, just as you would choose your own child’s life over another child’s life if put in such a terrible dilemma. So it is hard for vegan cat owners who must participate in the slaughter and suffering of other non-humans in order to properly care for the cat they have adopted and to whom they owe a healthy existence.
6. Do you see a trajectory for your own future involvement in the cause?
I sincerely hope to make a difference in NZ, to make veganism more mainstream, to open up more dialogue on a local level about animal rights and the abolition of animal use. We should each work in our own communities, because that is how we will change the world. I would love it if people in NZ started to hear of the concept of veganism as a moral choice, rather than as some weirdo hippy thing, which is what they think about it now, and if we could bring this dialogue out in the open, and really wake people up to the wonderful truth of non-violence, and the fact that each one of us has the ability to choose non-violence in our own life and go vegan, and that we can end so much suffering and take the shadow off our souls. I want to help my country and the animals in my country, and doing so, help the world. It is a grass roots movement aiming towards a paradigm shift, a change in consciousness and I live here, so I aim to bring it out into the open here. Well, I will at least try. It is all I can do.
7. How do you maintain your sensitivity in light of so much horror and ugliness? What keeps you going?
I wouldn’t be able to do anything without the love and support of all the other people who are also spreading this message of non-violence, who feel the same way, and who also suffer grief over the situation. Without them to talk to and learn from, I honestly don’t know what I would do. What keeps me going is the knowledge that billions and billions of animals are suffering unnecessarily, and they need us. We are the only ones who can help them. I will not let them down, I will do it every day because it is the right thing to do. I can only hope to make a difference, that is not guaranteed, but I must try. I owe it to them to do this, I want to do this, and I will do this for the rest of my life, because I know the truth and cannot hide from it any more. When I have a bad day because I missed the bus or someone was rude to me or whatever highly trivial thing affecting me in that moment, I think of what their day is like, and it puts it all into perspective. I will also add that I do not watch any footage of slaughter or horrific treatment as it renders me useless. I go to the Peaceful Prairie Blog and read their stories instead. We need to give ourselves hope and encouragement. The slaughter videos are to open the eyes of people who have never been confronted with the truth, but along with those videos we must also give the right message, and the right message is veganism.
8. Are you affiliated with any animal rights organizations?
I am not affiliated with any organizations. I don’t know of any animal ‘rights’ organizations – only animal welfare organizations! I promote the Abolitionist Approach as created and developed by Gary Francione, but it is simply a matter of the philosophy making sense to me and going out there myself and promoting the abolitionist theory of animal rights in my own activism. There is no membership or anything. I use a lot of material from the site Abolitionist Approach, but also other proponents of abolition have great material, and now in NZ we have two websites that I use as resources also, http://nzdairy.webs.com/ and http://www.nzeggs.webs.com/
I also use Peaceful Prairie’s resources a LOT. Again, this is not membership or affiliation as such, just a spreading of the same idea – the abolition of the use of non-human animals through creative nonviolent vegan education using veganism as a moral baseline. I can’t claim to have invented this approach – Gary Francione did, but I certainly use it and fully agree with it fundamentally and philosophically. Luckily Gary doesn’t demand donations like the other groups. Peaceful Prairie is a sanctuary that needs donations to continue to exist so if I donate any money I donate it to them.
9. Is there anything else you would like to say or that you would like people to know about you?
Just that less than two years ago I was as blissfully unaware of the realities of this situation (non-human slavery and exploitation) as they are and that if I can see it for what it really is (an abomination) and make the change to veganism, anyone is capable of doing the same. I remember what it was like to not be vegan, and it was not deliberate cruelty or because I was a “bad” person. I remember – in fact I was the same person as I am now, just not awake to the reality of the situation! Not facing the truth about the consequences of my actions as an individual. This was not because I was stupid or bad or immoral, but I just hadn’t been given the correct information. So I want people to know this is not about judgement or elitism. We are, most of us, inherently the same with regard to our innate compassion and our desire for peace and therefore we are all capable of digesting the information and going vegan. If we as a species want peace on earth well for a start we must take animal rights seriously and go vegan. Tolstoy was absolutely correct in saying “as long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields” and I believe that from the bottom of my heart. Most people want peace, but they are not being given the correct information. It is our job to share this information we have been lucky enough to receive – it is not about judgement it is about spreading the truth in order to help ALL of us, we can all only benefit from a nonviolent world. I feel lucky to have received this information, not special or superior – lucky. I want to spread the luck. And spread the love.
10. You mentioned earlier about absorbing the enormity of what is going on for animals. Are you hopeful for animals and our planet?
I am hopeful, and one of the reasons I am is because of my own example. I was 34 years old when I went vegan. I use myself as a living example that anyone can see the truth of the matter and go vegan at any stage in their life. Young or old, rich or poor, it is an individual decision and that is very powerful knowledge to have. I know that the overwhelming majority of human beings are simply not exposed or are not exposing themselves to the truth of the situation, and some are resistant to it at first, but all are capable of making the decision to go vegan. I am a glass is half full thinker about this – rather than lament how bad things are for women or black people or children (I know they are) I think of how bad things were and how far we have come and how much further we can go. We are evolving in our thinking for the better, it is just a matter of never giving up hope.
11. One of the difficulties, in my experience, in being passionate about a cause is that you can receive negativity, even hostility, from other people in the movement who view things a little differently. How do you keep your head above water?
From people like you! If I am having a bad day I can pick any number of places to go and read about other people who are doing the same things and who feel the same way, about a place like Peaceful Prairie or other sanctuaries, about other vegans who are compassionate and who are fully committed to helping non human animals. I love reading about people and how they went vegan, the stories are wonderful and all involve them finding the compassion in their heart that they always possessed but were never given the chance to act upon. Now is the time to ignite that spark in the consciousness of all people in all nations, and that is what so many people are doing, it is truly wonderful. We must NEVER give up we must NEVER lose hope.
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